Before Cat Person was released in New York and Los Angeles, I hopped on a Zoom call to interview Michelle Ashford, the film's screenwriter.

If you want to watch the film, you can buy tickets here for the IFC Center and Laemmle screenings.

Furthermore, if you're interested in reading the short story Cat Person is based on, you can do so here.

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Austin: Hello, everyone. And welcome. I'm your host, Austin Belzer. And today, I'm interviewing Michelle Ashford, screenwriter of Cat Person, which comes out this Friday at the IFC Center in New York with Q&As featuring Susanna Fogel, who directed the film.

She's going to be doing those Q&As on the 6th and 7th at the IFC Center, and then in California, it's also opening this week at the Laemmle Royal in West Los Angeles, Laemmle Glendale, and Laemmle Town Center also happening this week with expansions over, happening over the next month.

This is based on the short story by Kristen in the New Yorker a few years back. It premiered at Sundance 2023. It stars Emilia Jones, Nicholas Braun, Geraldine Viswanathan, Hope Davis, and Isabella Rossellini. It's about the horrors of dating and getting that 21st-century spin on that in this thriller.

So welcome, Michelle. I know that was a bit of a spiel, but thanks for hanging tight. So, for those who don't know who Michelle who don't know who Michelle is, she did a couple of years ago. I want to say this is your most recent was Operation Mincemeat a couple of years ago.

Michelle Ashford: That's true. I did.

Austin: Yeah, that came out on Netflix. It was really good. Go check that out if you haven't. I'll have a link in the description for that. You also did Masters of Sex and a few other things. So let's get started. First and foremost, this is based on the short story in The New Yorker.

So, how did you approach adapting that for the screen?

Michelle: Well, I read the story like everybody did. I think it was in December of 2017 that it came out and went viral. Somebody approached me and said, what would you think of adapting this? And so I read it. And like everyone, I was. I was really kind of struck by how visceral it was, how strange it was, and how mostly how relatable it was.

So, but to me, it kind of had a nightmarish quality, and I thought, wow, if I were going to adapt this. I think it would sort of need to be in the horror realm because I think that's a really interesting genre to be able to take societal issues, and by slightly exaggerating them, you get to actually look at them more clearly.

So, that seemed like a good way to go forward.

Austin: Yeah. And as somebody who has been in the horrors of online dating, I can tell you it's a horror show. Absolutely.

Michelle: It's gotten, it's certainly gotten incredibly complicated, and I think that's one of the things that Kristen Roupenian's story does so well is just to show the million ways miscommunication and misunderstandings can happen.

Austin: Yeah. And then, I guess for those who haven't read the short story, I'll include a link in the description for those who haven't...how do you think it'll be received or rather portrayed by audiences who haven't read the short story?

Michelle: I think, in a weird way, it's easier for people who haven't read the short story because they just come to it with no preconceptions because the story was so sort of, well, both beloved and not beloved.

A lot of people had very strong feelings about it. So if you have read the story and you had strong feelings about it, you tend to bring that also to watching the movie. And I, I'm all in favor of people who actually haven't seen the, haven't read the story because then they come to it very clean. And they just evaluate the movie on its own terms.

Austin: Yeah, I had a similar experience with Our Friend a few years back. That was based on a short story, which was based on a true story. And I didn't read the...I think it was the Atlantic article about it, and so I went in clean, not knowing it was based on anything. And I probably wouldn't have had the same reaction to it that I did if I had read that short story before beforehand.

Michelle: Yes, it colors your experience. It's always a problem with any kind of adaptation, which is something I've done many, many times. In my career, but I'm usually adapting nonfiction. So yeah, yes, you have to just, you have to take that into account what the audience is bringing to the experience based on what they've already either seen or read.

Austin: Yeah. And then I guess talking about your previous work, Masters of Sex, things like that. When you were writing the sex scenes in the film? How did you approach the depiction of that?

Michelle: Well, certainly in the story the, the kind of disastrous sex is part of the, a huge part of what the story is all about. That these two people have been communicating mostly through their devices, and so they don't really know each other at all, and it's only when they get in the same room and have to interact with one another that they can actually start to have an authentic experience, and so they're both bringing all these preconceptions into this date and yeah.

I mean, look, it was always going to be kind of the most cringe-worthy sex scene on Earth, and we decided to lean into that, and I think one of the things that women especially were reacting to so strongly in that and that story that we wanted to continue into the film, which is why women, I think many, many women, and I'm sure many men as well, have had that experience and it's kind of like, how, how do you end up in those situations?

And what were the decisions that led to these moments where you think, what am I doing here? And, and why am I here? So that that is one thing we wanted to preserve. It's so brilliant in the story and, but it does mean that you do have to sit through one of the most challenging sex scenes probably that's been on film lately.

Austin: Yeah. And it's not entirely unrealistic. You know, I had a not entirely similar situation, but I was going on this date with somebody I'd never met. We'd only been talking online. And then we were texting back and forth, and we didn't know it, but we were sitting right next to each other, texting each other.

And then somebody said, Hey, uh, you know, you guys are sitting right next to each other, right? And I'm like, Oh no. But it's just that thing of, you know, you. You have that thing where you're used to not seeing people in front of you, and then you're like, Oh, now I've got all this all these things now that I have to adjust to on the fly instead of waiting for those three little blue bubbles or, actually back then the iPhone didn't exist.

So it was just a flip-up phone. But yeah, it's a, it's an interesting Interesting dynamic. I would say

Michelle: I would say, I certainly say our devices make it easier in some ways to find people, and it makes it way harder to know them. So, you know, it's up to you to decide whether or not that's an improvement.

I think that I think there's, there's, you know, what we really wanted in that film is to show that. It takes actually this sort of disastrous encounter for them to be actually honest with one another that everything leading up to that was, you know, some form of a of a false image.

Both of them are projecting.

Austin: Yeah, because there's that curating of yourself online on social, not social media, but on places like Tinder or Bumble or Hinge or. I could probably go on and on, but where you're trying to create a version of yourself that's most swipable, I guess, that will attract the person that, oh, I want to swipe right on this person because that sounds like somebody I'd want to go out with and then you meet with them, and it's a completely different thing because it was so curated or even just not not entirely one to one. But with that, I guess getting into the reflection of how that of how would you think that reflects the experiences of young women today having to curate themselves into this perfect image of somebody just swipe on it?

Does that make sense?

Michelle: Well, yeah, I think it's, I think it's an enormous I think it's an enormous burden, and I think especially for young women and men, you know, when you're part of your job of growing up and becoming adult is trying to figure out who you are, this having to always is. Projecting some kind of idealized version of yourself through social media and all your devices only makes that process more complicated and belabored.

And yeah, the idea of putting your phone down and. Getting away from that for a while is, I think, a good idea.

Austin: Yeah, for sure. And I guess getting back to you talked a little bit about the horror elements of this. How did you balance that horror element with... the romantic elements of the story?

Michelle: Well, I never really thought of it as a romance, so I didn't really feel burned by that. I think what I was trying to do is slowly weave a web of two people circling around one another and seeing where that led. And so I, I didn't, I didn't worry so much about. Quote unquote, putting together any kind of a romantic story.

What I was trying to do is it's more a suspense kind of story, you know, a horror story where you put these elements into place, and then you watch them swirl around one another, and you want to see sort of how It's going to all eventually come together. And I did want to show moments where they were struggling to kind of reveal themselves and then would pull back, and I wanted to show that struggle and, and try and find funny moments in it. And, but both these characters are really living in their heads, you know, for most of this until they just are forced to confront each other as real people. And Yeah, I just didn't feel like, oh, I'm putting together a romantic comedy with a horror.

I never felt that.

Austin: Yeah, that's fair. And then, I guess I would be remiss to not mention this. But for those who aren't in the news, the writer's strike just ended. And I just want to get a brief thoughts about that really quick. If you don't want to talk about it, that's entirely fine.

Just now that you get to promote your work again after months and months of not getting a fair deal.

Michelle: I'm happy that it's over. I I think we all are. Uh, you know, that was a long strike. I think I feel that it was a necessary strike. There's been many, many changes in our business and. Yeah, there was just many things that needed to get sorted out and adjusted for this new world that we're living in with this, you know, an explosion of streaming and and everything.

And I will say one thing about the writer strike this time around. I've been through three in my life. This one was the most the membership was on the same page almost entirely. People were supportive. People understood the issues. The guild-the leadership did a remarkable job of keeping everybody informed.

So, there was a great deal of solidarity in this strike. And that made it much much easier to bear, I think. Not that people didn't suffer, and I always have to say, you know, it's just not the writers that suffer when we go on strike. So, I think most of us are very aware of all the people that suffer financially when something like that happens.

But you know, there's just the way that The financial situation between the companies and the writers was going had to be addressed. It was not going in a good direction.

Austin: Yeah, especially with the tax write-offs that were happening a lot with streaming, and then suddenly, like, my work isn't anywhere.

Michelle: Yes.

This seems to weirdly be turning around as Disney+ is putting a lot more stuff on...available for purchase for whatever reason.

I don't know what the economics are there, but that was weird.

Michelle: I don't know that. I-I think very few people know what the economics really are. This is part of the reason for the strike. So it's, it's a very, very complicated thing. And look at both sides are struggling. The companies are trying to figure out what this landscape means.

And we're trying to figure out how to make a living in this landscape. So, you know, this is what happened. And but I think everyone's quite pleased it's over.

Austin: Yeah, same. I'm, I was really happy to see when I was, I think I was—looking on my phone. I obsessively checked my email, and I saw it was over.

I was like, Oh, thank goodness. It took so long. I'm glad it finally happened. And I hope that it happens for SAG-AFTRA very soon. I know they're meeting today as we're recording this. I hope they get their fair deal soon. But yeah.

Michelle: Yes, we definitely hope that as well.

Austin: But with that said, I hope people check out Cat Person.

It comes out this week in New York and Los Angeles. At the previously mentioned IFC Center in New York and the Laemmle locations in West Los Angeles, Glendale, and the Laemmle Town Center, and expands over the next month. I'm sure more dates are being added all the time. So go check it out.

It's only two hours. I feel like that's a rarity nowadays. So it's a nice tight two hours. I fully recommend it. I'll have a review up on the website on October 6th or right before. So go check that out. I hope you all have enjoyed this interview. I've enjoyed having you on. Michelle, I hope we get to talk again with whatever your next project is.

Michelle: Thank you, Austin.

I appreciate it.

Austin: Yeah. But thanks again. And thanks for everyone listening and watching.